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2012年6月15日星期五

究竟大學生研經宣教會真正的名稱是什麼? (16 Jun 2012)


bosophie 寫到:
看完littlesheep你QUOTE的電郵投訴信,我才知道這個網帖裏你真的用了很多不同的名字,原來都是同一個人,之前都不知道添!...也知道你在這裏用不同身份寫野寫到真係...


Graceleung 寫到:
請不要再回應了,以「不同的身份」在網上回應的,包括:littlesheep、Amy、tkllll、Christian57、Jery…… (或更多),我們也曉得是「同一個人」


eloihk 寫到:
何況「化身」如此之多


互聯網是個自由討論的世界, 當中有來各界不同的人參與, 有許多在這討論區參與討論的人, 事實上我也不知道是誰。

雖然 bosophie 不認同“很多不同的名字,原來都是同一個人”的做法,但偏偏大學生研經宣教會(UBF- Hong Kong) 卻不理會 bosophie 及一些同工們的立場,堅持在網上不同的平台上用了很多不同的名字,但卻是同一個組織(或人) [詳見下],這樣的行為其實莫視一些在UBF裏較不喜歡不誠實的同工們的立場(e.g. bosophie, Graceleung, eloihk, etc. ),令不贊成用很多教會名字的弟兄姊妹,也迫不得意地參與教會不太誠實的做法,大學生研經宣教會在網上不同平台之名稱如下:

一,公司註冊處註冊之名稱(英文):UNIVERSITY BIBLE FELLOWSHIP (HONG KONG CENTRE) LIMITED
二,公司註冊處註冊之名稱(中文):大學生研經宣教會(香港中心)有限公司
三,主日信息 (英文):Hong Kong Centre
四,主日信息 (中文):香港中心
五,香港網站(英文):University Bible Fellowship - Hong Kong
六,香港網站(中文):大學生研經宣教會 - 香港
七,FB名稱(帳號一): 大學生研經宣教會(香港) (UBF - Hong Kong)
八,FB名稱(帳號二): Hongkong Ubf
九,FB名稱(帳號三): 大學生研經宣教會 (香港中心) UBF (Hong Kong Centre)
十,FB名稱(帳號四): 大學生研經宣教會 (UBF)  (~18/6/2012 新增) 
十一,Youtube帳號名稱: hkubf 
十二,Twitter: 大學生研經宣教會@hkubf 
十三,Yahoo blog: 大學生研經宣教會(UBF) 
十四,英文:University Bible Fellowship (UBF) 


難怪連韓國宣教士 C.S. 也感到混亂而在 FB 裏問道:Which is the official facebook page? (UBF - Hong Kong) or Hongkong Ubf ?


(註:自從此帖子張貼後,C.S.宣教士的以上留言,已被UBF負責網頁的弟兄 delete 了,此造法有消滅證據之嫌,與李注洋的屍體被匆匆火化,有何相似之處呢?)

事實上,一般正統教會只有一個官方網頁和一個名稱,是沒有那麼多不同的名稱。那麼,為何堂堂一個註冊慈善機構要用那麼多的名稱呢?

有專研濫權教會(Abusive Church)的學者Dr. Ronald Enroth在《Churches That Abuses》一書中指出,異端傾向經常更換名字,尤其當它們的名字被媒體曝光了(these churches tend to change their names often, especially once they are exposed by the media)
(source:http://www.probe.org/site/c.fdKEIMNsEoG/b.4227407/k.9467/Abusive_Churches.htm)

問題:
Q1.
對於那些迫不得意地參與教會不太誠實的做法的UBF弟兄姊妹,個人深表同情你們,希望你們也認真思想:是否繼續留在一所有許多名稱的教會內服侍?

Q2.
你們又怎樣向羔羊交代UBF有許多名稱的原因呢?

Q3. UBF
牧者們會否覺得別人有多個名稱就是不對,並要拒絕對話,但自己教會UBF有許多名稱就無問題呢?

Q4. UBF
會否認為只要是為了福音工作,就不太誠實也沒有所謂呢?(耶青和統一教認為為了福音工作,說謊是沒有問題的)


2012年4月16日星期一

一位 UBF 港大羔羊 Brenda 對 Jery 的回覆 (17 Apr 2012)

我牧者本來叫我唔好去,話唔好去聽D撒但既聲音,不過我想知道教會有無問題,同埋牧者有無騙我,所以我偷偷地去左,先知道原來咁多UBF D唔好野,消息封鎖得咁勁,唔掛得知牧者叫我唔好去聽,不過我知好多羊羊好慘,被牧者捉住佢地查經無得去。

雖然我都係UBF既,不過我都要出黎講番D事實俾好似我一樣既羊羊知,你講既買樓牧者,係唔係Q&A最尾幾分鐘話自己好自由,有得去旅行果位?如果係既既話,佢有得去旅行唔出奇,可能因為佢無乜羔羊服事,因為我成日聽UBF教導要捨己背十字架、進窄門、唔好安逸、要竭力爭扎服事12對查經、要有軍隊精神,所以我估佢咁free,可能因為佢無順從UBF既教導。不過以我所知,成間教會無乜幾多個牧者可以咁free去旅行,最多只係可以參加韓國美國靈修營。以我牧者為例,佢真係好似個talk咁講由朝做到晚,因為佢勁多羔羊,每星期閒閒地服事十對八對,佢咁耐以黎,唔好話無去過旅行,甚至香港既其他地方,我估佢都無乜去過,因為佢成日都要留在港大既Bible House度查經,有時仲夜過個Talk個PowerPoint所講既9點、10點添!

不過,都多謝你話俾我知原來呢間教會係唔俾牧者買樓,同埋有咁多人被論斷,唔掛得知我見D牧者個個都無買樓,仲成日隱悔既分享被人論斷、唔能夠同團契既弟兄姊妹同心既所感。

我好同意你講既:「群體的領袖是要負上最大的負任,責無旁貸的,作為基督耶穌的使者,是不應該推卸責任,找別人作擋射牌的。」係唔係找別人作擋射牌,我就唔肯定,不過個晚,D宣教士真係成場唔見影、仲要最尾先黎,攪到D牧者要出黎講野,我見D牧者真係好慘,好多問題都唔識答,Q&A又唔係問問題。希望D高層真係能如你所講,效法基督的品格,唔好再操控人,對D牧者好D,唔好再將自己既責任交俾D牧者,令佢地承受咁大壓力,等佢地開心D,唔好成日怪自己做得唔好啦!

Source: http://www.armbell.com/liberalhk/viewtopic.php?t=4894&start=90&mforum=liberalhk

2012年4月6日星期五

Utopia in Kimchi Tank – Exploring the hazards of the Korea manipulative sect which recommands the Kingdom of Heaven on Earth

Utopia in Kimchi Tank – Exploring the hazards of the Korea manipulative sect which recommands the Kingdom of Heaven on Earth

News:
Utopia in Kimchi Tank – Exploring the hazards of the Korea manipulative sect which recommands the Kingdom of Heaven on Earth

Description:
In recent years, we saw many zealous Korean religious sects preaching in the universities campus. They usually attract students’ participation by special cultural activities. Then, through systematic Bible study class, they instill their ideas gradually. However, many of such sects are in the name of Christianity, claiming themselves to be a godly and full of love’s Kingdom of Heaven that rarely found on earth. In fact, their claiming is unreal and they are the blind-believers abusive organisations. They bring to believers lots of poison and ideological manipulation. In order to explore these phenomena, we expecially held a lecture. We invited someone who has been caught in such denominations and some senior religious people. They will explain how to distinguish between authentic and problemed denominations. Let’s discuss how such campus mission movement influenced the students.

Speakers:
Dr. Kai-Yum Cheung Teng (Alliance Bible Seminary, Associate Professor of Cross-cultural Research Department)
Pastor Wu Chi Wai (Hong Kong Church Renewal Movement, General Director)
Former University Bible Fellowship UBF (South Korea manipulative sect) Division Leader

Date:
2012/04/11 (Wednesday)

Location:
T.Y. Wong Hall (TYW_LT), 5th/F, Ho Sin Hang Engineering Building, The Chinese University of Hong Kong

Time:
19:00 - 21:00pm

Object:
University professors and students, people who concerns about that.

Organizer:
Concern Group on Newly Emerged Religions CGNER/
Hong Kong Church Renewal Movement HKCRM
Enquiry Hotline:
8132-2841

Web site:
http://www.cgner.org
http://www.facebook.com/events/378534852179368/

No registration. Free admission

2012年4月2日星期一

中大講座:泡菜缸裡的烏托邦﹣探討推崇人間天國之韓國操控性教派的危害

中大講座:泡菜缸裡的烏托邦﹣探討推崇人間天國之韓國操控性教派的危害

facebook:
http://www.facebook.com/events/378534852179368/
http://www.facebook.com/cgner.org


簡介:
近年在大學校園發現不少熱心傳教的韓國宗教團體,他們大多藉著饒富特式的文化活動吸引同學們參加,繼而透過有系統的查經來灌輸他們的理念,原來當中有好些教派掛著正統宗教的名義,自詡為世間罕有充滿愛心與敬虔的人間天國,但實際是名不符實且導人於盲的濫權組織,對信徒帶來極多的思想操控和毒害,為探討這些現象,我們特地舉辦這個講座,並邀請曾身陷這類教派的過來人和資深的宗教界人士,講解如何分辨純正與問題教派,共同探討此類校園宣教活動對同學們的影響。


講員:
滕張佳音博士(建道神學院.跨越文化研究系副教授)
胡志偉牧師(香港教會更新運動.總幹事)
前大學生研經宣教會 UBF(韓國操控性教派)分區負責人


日期:2012 / 04 / 11(週三)


地點:香港中文大學何善衡工程學大樓5樓王統元堂 (TYW_LT)
時間:19:00 - 21:00
對象:大學師生、各界關心人士
主辦機構:新興宗教關注小組 /香港教會更新運動
查詢熱線:8132-2841

網址:
http://www.cgner.org/


       
無須報名.免費參加





2011年12月15日星期四

UBF用"配婚"試驗"忠心"? (16 Dec 2011)

UBF用 "配婚" 試驗 "忠心"?  

據新興教派研究中心李錦彬牧師認為,UBF 要求信徒接受旨婚及一個月內成婚,原因是為試驗那信徒是否徹徹底底的效忠UBF宣教士/牧者,若果一個人連婚姻咁重要既人生大事都肯順服,則表示將來無論什麼事他也會順服,那麼,這個就是 UBF 要尋找的人了,因為他既然人生大事都肯順服,那麼,將來他就可以任由 UBF 操控和擺佈了。

以下是一位 UBF 成員對 UBF 配婚的個人體法,他的非凡之處,是他現在身處在操控性教會中,仍然有高度的批判思巧和分析能力,是叫本人十分驚訝的!他對配婚的看法,有一點是本人實際的經歷,就是 ”一切嚴重/強烈的操控和精神虐待,皆從一個人接受配婚開始” 。

I am now a UBF member, but I don't agree with all their teachings. 其實我發覺一些控制婚姻的事,如下:

1. UBF 配婚跟原教旨摩門教差不多, 如果你聽話, 就給你幾個老婆. 不聽話的, 由得你繼續為自己的婚姻禱告. UBF 用同樣的方法, 就是如果你聽話, 就給你介紹年輕漂亮老婆,否則不管你.

2. 藉口是 ”愛主” , “多禱告”, “建立信心帳棚”. 而要你離開所有朋友, 只剩下 UBF 的人認識你, 令外介的朋友再不跟你熟識, 沒有辦法再關心你。讓你不能跑掉. 一定要跟完全認同UBF教義(上了身)的姐妹結婚。令你更跑不了。

3.  2010 年起碼有兩對 UBF 新人結婚, 但沒有告訴羔羊. 這樣故意的隱瞞, 是很下流的行為. 很多牧者也故意隱瞞這些"計劃婚姻"的細節.

4. 可能你看得出, 一位姊妹牧者根本沒有愛過她的”同工”。她真的放棄了婚姻來 ”撇下一切跟從UBF”. 甚至她服侍上跟她自己的老公有power struggle.

5. AK 宣教士好似離左婚. 但聖經中監督及執事的條件是無可指責(提前三:2;三:10;多一:6).

6. 信息裏故意跳過妻子應順服丈夫的經文. 既然你要順住聖經來講道, 而且UBF D姐妹咁串, 咁都唔引導下佢地, 真係討厭.

7. 主日信息簡直不知所謂,如下:
”我們當中的 Mother Berry 宣教士身平也與這位馬利亞一樣。她年青時很美麗,也是大財主的女兒,卻一生獨身,興起許多信心的弟兄和姊妹。無論是社會或是 神的工作裏,女子的影響力至大。兒女們受母親的影響比起父親多,然後兒女們長大後成為社會的領袖。過去二十多年,香港 Center 的福音工作也是以姊妹們的獻身和莫大的能力來成就,弟兄們就照姊妹的吩咐做,當香港錫安女子擁有對主火熱的愛獻身時,興起了許多信心的弟兄。”

這是 UBF 2011年10月2日一部崇拜的信息. 勁高舉姊妹的信心,甚至話成間教會的福音工作,都係姊妹”撐住”,而弟兄剩係照姊妹吩咐去做,簡直係當D弟兄死既,真係荒謬到極,竟然為了高舉姊妹而踩底弟兄!父親對兒女的影響遠遠大於母親, 而佢居然話兒女們受母親的影響比父親多 ? 你知不知道在監獄裏的犯人很多都未見過爸爸呢 ? 未婚懷孕的少女中, 很多都是與爸爸關係不好的多. 男同性戀者中, 沒有多少會與爸爸的關係是好的. 這與 ”女性應該順服, 應該安靜學道” 的教導背道而馳. (待續)

source: http://www.armbell.com/liberalhk/viewtopic.php?t=4894&start=75&sid=5b8624fbbd84211202403dc0110683f9&mforum=liberalhk

2011年10月31日星期一

2011年10月26日星期三

Former Chicago UBF Director 的兒子(Second Generation) Chung Joe 受到 Ron Ward 以主日信息公開定罪

Former Chicago UBF Director 的兒子(Second Generation) Chung Joe 受到 Ron Ward 以主日信息公開定罪


我們一致的看法:身為信息僕人,在信息中公開定別人的罪,可達到以下幾個後果:

一) 隱藏或掩飾教會和領袖的罪惡,叫人把問題和罪的根源歸結於離開者;
二) 令信徒恐懼,害怕自己若離開的話,同樣會受到所愛的人如此的定罪和抹黑,而失去離開的勇氣;
三) 抹黑滿心傷痕而離開的羔羊,是十分邪惡的行為,絕非牧者所為。
四) 作為信息僕人,竟然站在神的位置,公開定別人的罪,論斷可憐的羔羊,行為實在可恥!
五) Ron Ward 又在信息中,稱呼 Chung Joe 的父親 Joseph Chung 是 saint (聖人),實在奪去神當有榮耀,把榮耀歸給人。


事緣: Former Chicago UBF Director 的兒子(Second Generation) Chung Joe ,受到 Chicago 信息僕人 Ron Ward 以主日信息公開定罪,他寫了一封公開信,回應他的言論,並 quote 了他當時在主日信息中侮辱他的部分,然而,Chicago Centre竟然在事後刪改了侮辱的字句,以掩飾 Ron Ward 在信息中論斷人的惡言,可比較以下兩段文字:

(source: http://rsqubf.livejournal.com/123416.html)

Open Letter to Ron Ward, by Chung Joe


17th-Jun-2007 01:49 pm

chungjoe
Mr. Ward:

I am the son of Joseph Chung that you refer to in your sermon this week (http://chicagoubf.org/messages/message/294):


Dr. Joseph Chung is known to be a saint among us. For the last six years, his son has been doing mischievous things and has damaged himself and others in many ways. At the time, Dr. Chung was president of UBF. It was shameful to acknowledge that his own son was acting like the greatest enemy of UBF. Yet Dr. Chung honestly brought this problem to God in prayer again and again in public and in private. He also pleaded with others to pray for his son Joe. Then a situation rose in Joe’s family that drove him to humble himself before God and before his parents. Now there are signs of reconciliation and healing with God and in the family as well.
I am glad that I have not been "driven to humble myself" to the point that reading such slurs does not make me a bit sad, angry and sick inside. I wonder how you think including such slurs helps the situation between me and my parents. I see that there is as yet no acknowledgment at all of the damage that UBF did to me "and others in many ways" (which you are well aware of). I hold out faint hope that my family's current situation does not fit neatly into theworld view that you have absorbed over the years, since surely even you can acknowledge that it is not only the families of "UBF's worst enemies" that experience adverse "situations." I need you to know that God had begun healing me and helping me move on, years before this situation in my family arose. And my reconciliation with God was assured the moment I believed the gospel. The situation has indeed humbled me, and I am determined to be reconciled to my parents (your mention of me in your sermon not withstanding) because they are my parents, and I ought to love them, as other former UBF 2ndgens have admirably and successfully done with their parents. I have made my position on reconciliation with UBF clear elsewhere and won't dwell on that. As a further sign of the humbling and healing effect that God has effected through my current family situation, I forgive you and will continue to move on.

In Christ,
Joe Chung


(source: http://chicagoubf.org/messages/message/294)
Sunday message by Ron Ward

Dr. Joseph Chung is known to be a saint among us. For the last six years, he has prayed for his own son with honesty, a broken heart, and persistence. Dr. Chung has also prayed for God’s sheep under his care. For the last three years he has studied the Bible with Carlos Santiago of Triton. Carlos was not a gentleman when he began Bible study. His girlfriend Elisa was afraid of him. But Dr. Chung prayed for Carlos to know Christ and grow in the grace of God. God answered this prayer. Carlos changed inwardly and became a noble man of God. He decided to go back to college and finish a degree. He also won the heart of Elisa and they had a beautiful wedding yesterday.

2011年10月23日星期日

洗腦教會的特徵 (by Biderman's Chart of Coercion)


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Biderman's Chart of Coercion
脅迫憲章
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    說起來,英文中的「洗腦(brainwashing)」這個單字,也是在南北韓戰爭中,為了描述被俘的美軍所遭遇到的不人道狀況而發明的。

  大部分洗腦的手法跟監獄警衛的手段相似,他們知道除非獲得囚犯的合作,要控制囚犯的身體是困難的。獲得合作最有效的方法莫過於破壞性的操控受害者的心智及情感,使他同時也成為心理上的囚犯。

來自國際特赦組織的《拷問報告》描述了戰爭時俘虜所遭遇到的洗腦手法。
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Isolation
孤立

* Deprives individual of social support, effectively rendering him unable to resist
使個人脫離社會支持網路,讓他不易抵抗。
* Makes individual dependent upon interrogator
讓個體依賴拷問者。
* Develops an intense concern with self.
發展強烈的自我關注。

  一個人一旦遠離長期的情感支持並且脫離現實感,就容易被洗腦了。殘害心靈的團體直接地要求成員放棄朋友和家人來換取該團體的認同,或者間接地鼓吹成員藉由表現憎恨自己的父母、家人及朋友,才能顯現對神的忠誠,來達到他們孤立個人的目的。
  此類團體具封閉性質,堅持成員能在內獲得所有滿足、支持和家的感覺。將加入者的親友、人際關係隔離,灌輸僵硬的意識型態,讓加入者滿腦子只有團體的教條和要求。
  由於與其他人隔離,加入者變得依賴團體成員和領導者,而越來越難抗拒團體教義。他們變得自私和高度警覺,害怕現在僅有的認同在此團體中失去。

Warning signs
警訊:

  當一個團體要求成員付出所有空閒時間,堅持他要每次聚會出現,如不能出席需解釋原因;批評或不贊成成員與團體外的親友互動,鼓勵保密,不許把聚會內容透露;公開批評其他團體(特別是藉此強調其唯一的正統性);對參加其他團體的會議、工作坊或服務責難,並對成員進行調查,以確定缺席理由真假,或者強制參加團體所有集會才能成為幹部或者獲得團體情誼;這樣的團體存在偏激性質。
  一旦成員不再公開地與他人互動,該團體就有了最大的影響力。團體的價值觀及資訊持續轟炸,而不虞成員不同意或懷疑,因為沒有團體外的人可以分享或堅定他的想法。孤立的過程和缺乏自信,使團體及其領導者得以掌控成員。領導者可能會對成員的大小缺點責難,有時甚至當眾如此,或者提醒他們現在或過去的罪惡。他們可能叫喊成員,予以侮辱或忽視,或者一會兒不理不睬,一會兒熱心對待,好藉此來彰顯現在是誰在當家作主。
  羞恥感讓成員覺得他們活該如此,並覺得沒用的自己能加入這團體是值得感激的。當領導者偶爾略施小惠,他們便感激涕零。
  最後,對團體依賴的體認和微小注意的感激,導致羞恥感的增加和團體內地位的降低,成員開始念「我活該咒」自虐,「不論他們如何對我,像我這樣有罪及惡劣的人,我活該。我不值得人家對我更好。我只夠格下地獄。不管我受到怎樣對待,即使是被懲罰,都要心存感激。」

Monopolization of Perception
觀念想法的排他性控制

* Fixes attention upon immediate predicament; fosters introspection
使注意力專注在當前困境;促使自我反省
* Eliminates stimuli competing with those controlled by captor
消除影響控制者掌控的刺激
* Frustrates all actions not consistent with compliance
讓不表順從的行動受挫

  脅迫團體對生活各方面細節,包括衣、食、住、錢、小孩教養、談話,堅持對其要求順從。他們監控成員的外表,批評說話和小孩教養方式。他們強烈要求準確遵行隨領導者高興編排而無規則可言的行程表和程序。
  新成員一開始可能會想這些期待不合理而有所爭論,但之後,為了和睦相處或因為害怕,或是看到其他人都順從了,也就跟著順從了。然而,一位成員不被允許穿某 色衣物、留有某種髮型、吃某些東西、說某些字、到某個地方、看某些東西,或與某些人交往,這真有什麼差別嗎?對整個計策來說,這重要嗎?事實上,最後將使 成員開始思考,「或許學這些戒律是有益的」,然而,就如他們持續被灌輸的,承認並屈服於統治者在精神上的權威。很快地他將發現要求無窮無盡,要專注更多時間和精力來避免做「錯」事而造成失去團體支持。這感覺如履薄冰。團體及領導者的反應變得重要,成員本身的需求、感覺和意見則變得無足輕重。事實上,成員可能不久後連自己要什麼都不知道。團體就這樣透過瑣碎的要求控制了成員們的感知能力,使他們失去自己的看法。
  統治者也可能使成員相信他們較接近上帝,所以知道該如何做好每件事。當成員們的行為造成災難,這種事常常發生,就挨罵。有時候,特別是在統治者發飆完,他們可能會短暫地顯現謙卑姿態並自承過失,跟平時不可一世的姿態對照,這樣的低姿態讓成員喜愛並對公開溝通抱持希望。
  有時威脅也會派上用場。成員被告知,如果離開團體或不服從領導者,將會受到神明的懲罰。有時領導者會親自懲罰成員,如此成員便無法得知領導者何時會藉口神 明意旨進行威脅。成員於是開始專注在如何符合所有團體需求及保有短暫的平靜。此類團體可能將小孩帶離父母身邊,控管所有金錢,安排婚姻,將個人物品破壞或藏起來。

Warning signs:
警訊:

  只能專注於生活細節,被嚴格要求遵守諸如外貌、服飾、食物禁忌、作息表之類的標準,並被威脅不遵守將遭神怒,一種被團體其他成員或頭頭持續監視的感覺。換句話說,該團體的要求變成生活的一切,你感到必須隨時注意是否符合要求。你不再思考這些準則是否恰當,只曉得服從才能融入團體並獲頭頭喜愛。

Induced Debility and Exhaustion
引起身體衰弱和疲憊

  緊張、恐懼及持續匆忙地去努力符合團體要求,受到這般精神虐待,人逐漸虛弱。他們常避免顯現恐懼、悲傷或憤怒的情緒,以免遭奚落或處罰。嚴格的要求成員參加一大堆會議和活動,使的他們疲憊,更無法抵抗團體的壓力。

Warning Signs:
警訊:

  感覺被要求包圍到接近折磨的地步,對說「不」感到罪惡。被脅迫或施壓去「自願」服務,不「自願」表現的人會受到冷嘲熱諷。當家庭或工作上的責任干擾到團體時會受到責難。

Occasional Indulgences
偶施小惠

* Provides motivation for compliance
提供順從的動機

  當成員計畫脫離時,這些團體的頭頭常能敏銳地感覺到,而可能突然給予某些恩惠(或許只是愛或情感、以前未曾有的關注、作勢關心)。希望情況有所改變或自我 懷疑(「或許只是我把它想成這麼壞」)取代了恐懼或絕望,使得成員再度留下。一些團體則會在令人絕望的衝突或虐待時,不定時的給予同情或情感。這使得成員失去戒心,並且對自己對現況的理解產生懷疑。
  一些極端的洗腦技巧,已被一些團體有系統的使用,有些團體則偶爾為之。但即使是偶爾稍微的使用這些技巧,也能有效地獲得權力。

Warning Signs:
警訊:

  要留心於一個你認為傷害你,而持續想離開,但發現自己總在緊要關頭因為團體的召喚、意見或同情而退縮留下的團體。這些關懷的時刻不多,但足夠讓你抱持希望,而為這團體年復一年的持續犧牲。

Devaluing the Individual
貶低個人

* Creates fear of freedom and dependence upon captors
讓個人對自由恐懼並依賴控制者
* Creates feelings of helplessness
建立無助感
* Develops lack of faith in individual capabilities
使個人對能力缺乏自信
  頭頭常能敏銳地瞧出成員自傲的才能,並利用這些才能來對付成員。有音樂天賦的人如果要有所表現可能被講說太自傲了、或愛露鋒芒,而遭拒絕。有見識的人被說成吹毛求疵,仁慈的人則是缺乏聖潔或良好判斷力,和事佬則被提醒神帶來戰爭,而非和平。有時也會做一些動作讓成員相信他們並非好老師、或具有音樂天分、或其他自認有的才幹。當成員開始懷疑天賦的一兩項特質,他們也開始對過去所有的自我觀照存疑,而對團體頭頭感到依賴,並害怕離開團體。(「如果我連這種事都錯了,我怎能相信自己有能力做對抉擇呢?」)

Warning Signs:
警訊:

  團體不喜歡成員施展才幹。在成員才能發揮前,建立類似新兵訓練中心的嚴格要求,以求先獲得成員對團體的承諾。藉由提醒成員必須拋棄天賦,持續地批評其天資。要成員記住使徒保羅曾說:「當我軟弱,我反而堅強」,而他們被期待的是平凡的那一面。強調對團體的幫助或服務是晉升幹部的先決條件。這可能變成類似這 樣的形式:想服務的人先去打掃廁所或清潔環境再說;想在合唱團唱歌的人先試著在小朋友面前唱;不管什麼十八般武藝,都要先藉由確實參與各項集會和活動(例 如捐獻十分之一所得)來顯現忠誠,才可獲准獻醜。根本不屌你信了幾年教、年紀多大、多德高望重、或才幹有多特別。這規定一視同仁,有效地貶低每個人至一文 不值,沒有人的才能被稱許,唯有服務、順從、服從權威、不展現才幹,才是最受讚許的行為。

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http://readforjoy.blogspot.com/2008/07/chart-of-coercion.html

--------------------------------------------------------------------
Biderman's Chart of Coercion  
脅迫憲章
--------------------------------------------------------------------
"Most people who brainwash...use methods similar to those of prison guards who recognize that physical control is never easily accomplished without the cooperation of the prisoner. The most effective way to gain that cooperation is through subversive manipulation of the mind and feelings of the victim, who then becomes a psychological, as well as a physical, prisoner."
   from an Amnesty International publication, "Report on Torture", which depicts the brainwashing of prisoners of war.

Isolation
* Deprives individual of social support, effectively rendering him unable to resist
* Makes individual dependent upon interrogator
* Develops an intense concern with self.

Once a person is away from longstanding emotional support and thus reality checks, it is fairly easy to set a stage for brainwashing. Spiritually abusive groups work to isolate individuals from friends and family, whether directly, by requiring the individuals to forsake friends and family for the sake of the "Kingdom" (group membership), or indirectly, by preaching the necessity to demonstrate one's love for God by "hating" one's father, mother, family, friends.

Abusive groups are not outward-looking, but inward-looking, insisting that members find all comfort and support and a replacement family within the group. Cut off from friends, relatives, previous relationships, abusive groups surround the recruits and hammer rigid ideologies into their consciousnesses, saturating their senses with specific doctrines and requirements of the group.

Isolated from everyone but those within the group, recruits become dependent upon group members and leaders and find it difficult if not impossible to offer resistance to group teachings. They become self-interested and hyper-vigilant, very fearful should they incur the disapproval of the group, which now offers the only support available to them which has group approval.

Warning signs

The seed of extremism exists wherever a group demands all the free time of a member, insisting he be in church every time the doors are open and calling him to account if he isn't, is critical or disapproving of involvements with friends and family outside the group, encourages secrecy by asking that members not share what they have seen or heard in meetings or about church affairs with outsiders, is openly, publicly, and repeatedly critical of other churches or groups (especially if the group claims to be the only one which speaks for God), is critical when members attend conferences, workshops or services at other churches, checks up on members in any way, i.e., to determine that the reason they gave for missing a meeting was valid, or makes attendance at all church functions mandatory for participating in church ministry or enjoying other benefits of church fellowship.

Once a member stops interacting openly with others, the group's influence is all that matters. He is bombarded with group values and information and there is no one outside the group with whom to share thoughts or who will offer reinforcement or affirmation if the member disagrees with or doubts the values of the group. The process of isolation and the self-doubt it creates allow the group and its leaders to gain power over the members. Leaders may criticize major and minor flaws of members, sometimes publically, or remind them of present or past sins. They may call members names, insult them or ignore them, or practice a combination of ignoring members at some times and receiving them warmly at others, thus maintaining a position of power (i.e., the leaders call the shots.)

The sense of humiliation makes members feel they deserve the poor treatment they are receiving and may cause them to allow themselves to be subjected to any and all indignities out of gratefulness that one as unworthy as they feel is allowed to participate in the group at all. When leaders treat the member well occasionally, they accept any and all crumbs gratefully.

Eventually, awareness of how dependent they are on the group and gratitude for the smallest attention contributes to an increasing sense of shame and degradation on the part of the members, who begin to abuse themselves with "litanies of self-blame," i.e., "No matter what they do to me, I deserve it, as sinful and wretched as I am. I deserve no better. I have no rights but to go to hell. I should be grateful for everything I receive, even punishment."

Monopolization of Perception

* Fixes attention upon immediate predicament; fosters introspection
* Eliminates stimuli competing with those controlled by captor
* Frustrates all actions not consistent with compliance

Abusive groups insist on compliance with trival demands related to all facets of life: food, clothing, money, household arrangements, children, conversation. They monitor members' appearances, criticize language and childcare practices. They insist on precise schedules and routines, which may change and be contradictory from day to day or moment to moment, depending on the whims of group leaders.

At first, new members may think these expectations are unreasonable and may dispute them, but later, either because they want to be at peace or because they are afraid, or because everyone else is complying, they attempt to comply. After all, what real difference does it make if a member is not allowed to wear a certain color, or to wear his hair in a certain way, to eat certain foods, or say certain words, to go certain places, watch certain things, or associate with certain individuals. In the overall scheme of things, does it really matter? In fact, in the long run, the member begins to reason, it is probably good to learn these disciplines, and after all, as they have frequently been reminded, they are to submit to spiritual authority as unto the Lord.. Soon it becomes apparent that the demands will be unending, and increasing time and energy are focused on avoiding group disapproval by doing something "wrong." There is a feeling of walking on eggs. Everything becomes important in terms of how the group or its leaders will respond, and members' desires, feelings and ideas become insignificant. Eventually, members may no longer even know what they want, feel or think. The group has so monopolized all of the members' perceptions with trivial demands that members lose their perspective as to the enormity of the situation they are in.

The leaders may also persuade the members that they have the inside track with God and therefore know how everything should be done. When their behavior results in disastrous consequences, as it often does, the members are blamed. Sometimes the leaders may have moments, especially after abusive episodes, when they appear to humble themselves and confess their faults, and the contrast of these moments of vulnerability with their usual pose of being all-powerful endears them to members and gives hope for some open communication.

Threats sometimes accompany all of these methods. Members are told they will be under God's judgment, under a curse, punished, chastised, chastened if they leave the group or disobey group leaders. Sometimes the leaders, themselves, punish the members, and so members can never be sure when leaders will make good on the threats which they say are God's idea. The members begin to focus on what they can do to meet any and all group demands and how to preserve peace in the short run. Abusive groups may remove children from their parents, control all the money in the group, arrange marriages, destroy personal items of members or hide personal items.

Warning signs:

Preoccupation with trivial demands of daily life, demanding strict compliance with standards of appearance, dress codes, what foods are or are not to be eaten and when, schedules, threats of God's wrath if group rules are not obeyed, a feeling of being monitored, watched constantly by those in the group or by leaders. In other words, what the church wants, believes and thinks its members should do becomes everything, and you feel preoccupied with making sure you are meeting the standards. It no longer matters whether you agree that the standards are correct, only that you follow them and thus keep the peace and in the good graces of leaders.

Induced Debility and Exhaustion

People subjected to this type of spiritual abuse become worn out by tension, fear and continual rushing about in an effort to meet group standards. They must often avoid displays of fear, sorrow or rage, since these may result in ridicule or punishment. Rigid ministry demands and requirements that members attend unreasonable numbers of meetings and events makes the exhaustion and ability to resist group pressure even worse.

Warning Signs:

Feelings of being overwhelmed by demands, close to tears, guilty if one says no to a request or goes against a church standards. Being intimidated or pressured into volunteering for church duties and subjected to scorn or ridicule when one does not "volunteer." Being rebuked or reproved when family or work responsibilities intrude on church responsibilities.


Occasional Indulgences

* Provides motivation for compliance

Leaders of abusive groups often sense when members are making plans to leave and may suddenly offer some kind of indulgence, perhaps just love or affection, attention where there was none before, a note or a gesture of concern. Hope that the situation in the church will change or self doubt ("Maybe I'm just imagining it's this bad,") then replace fear or despair and the members decide to stay a while longer. Other groups practice sporadic demonstrations of compassion or affection right in the middle of
desperate conflict or abusive episodes. This keeps members off guard and doubting their own perceptions of what is happening.

Some of the brainwashing techniques described are extreme, some groups may use them in a disciplined, regular manner while others use them more sporadically. But even mild, occasional use of these techniques is effective in gaining power.

Warning Signs:

Be concerned if you have had an ongoing desire to leave a church or group you believe may be abusive, but find yourself repeatedly drawn back in just at the moment you are ready to leave, by a call, a comment or moment of compassion. These moments, infrequent as they may be, are enough to keep hope in change alive and thus you sacrifice years and years to an abusive group.

Devaluing the Individual
* Creates fear of freedom and dependence upon captors
* Creates feelings of helplessness
 * Develops lack of faith in individual capabilities
Abusive leaders are frequently uncannily able to pick out traits church members are proud of and to use those very traits against the members. Those with natural gifts in the areas of music may be told they are proud or puffed up or "anxious to be up front" if they want to use their talents and denied that opportunity. Those with discernment are called judgmental or critical, the merciful are lacking in holiness or good judgment, the peacemakers are reminded the Lord came to bring a sword, not peace. Sometimes efforts are made to convince members that they really are not gifted teachers or musically talented or prophetically inclined as they believed they were. When members begin to doubt the one or two special gifts they possess which they have always been sure were God-given, they begin to doubt everything else they have ever believed about themselves, to feel dependent upon church leaders and afraid to leave the group. ("If I've been wrong about even *that*, how can I ever trust myself to make right decisions ever again?").

Warning Signs:

Unwillingness to allow members to use their gifts. Establishing rigid boot camp-like requirements for the sake of proving commitment to the group before gifts may be exercised. Repeatedly criticizing natural giftedness by reminding members they must die to their natural gifts, that Paul, after all, said, "When I'm weak, I'm strong," and that they should expect God to use them in areas other than their areas of giftedness. Emphasizing helps or service to the group as a prerequisite to church ministry. This might take the form of requiring that anyone wanting to serve in any way first have the responsibility of cleaning toilets or cleaning the church for a specified time, that anyone wanting to sing in the worship band must first sing to the children in Sunday School, or that before exercising any gifts at all, members must demonstrate loyalty to the group by faithful attendance at all functions and such things as tithing. No consideration is given to the length of time a new member has been a Christian or to his age or station in life or his unique talents or abilities. The rules apply to everyone alike. This has the effect of reducing everyone to some kind of lowest common denominator where no one's gifts or natural abilities are valued or appreciated, where the individual is not cherished for the unique blessing he or she is to the body of Christ, where what is most highly valued is service, obedience, submission to authority, and performance without regard to gifts or abilities or, for that matter, individual limitations.

This article re-published from reFOCUS Network.
"Local Church" research site
lcinfo@ugcs.caltech.edu
Last updated 20 April 1996


2011年10月21日星期五

宣教士之間的搶羊事件

宣教士之間的搶羊事件
"Grap sheep event" between HK missionaries


source:
http://www.armbell.com/forum/viewtopic.php?t=4894&postdays=0&postorder=asc&start=30&mforum=liberalhk

Amy



註冊時間: 2011-09-01
文章: 7
發表發表於: 10-13-2011 14:21    文章主題: Mrs. Ma 牧者的身世之迷引言回覆

中大宣教士/牧者常教導,他們是神所設立的屬靈父母,所以,弟兄姊妹必須敬重他們,絕對地順從他們。

可是,有一日,港大宣教士查經時,講到葡萄園園戶的比喻,突然憂愁的說: 中大的宣教士/牧者趁佢有病入院,不在港大的那段日子,拿著禮物到佢母親的家,探訪 Director 宣教士,並以甜言蜜語請求他,運用 Director 的權柄,把 Mrs. Ma 牧者從港大掉回中大,佢母親聽到後,十分驚訝和感嘆。但無奈,從那時起,Mrs. Ma 牧者便返回中大服事。

港大宣教士還激動地說: Mrs. Ma牧者本來已經離開了 UBF,返回世界去,整個中大都沒有牧者可以服侍到他,唯獨佢辛苦、忍耐地,尋找並引領栽培他,重新堅立他成為港大開托團契的牧者。但中大宣教士/牧者見他重新堅立後,便趁佢不在港大時,將他奪去,令港大團契的羔羊,因突然失去團契牧者而徬徨,甚至有港大牧者因不知所措而流淚。

她強調: 中大是佢辛苦開托的葡萄園,佢才是園主,但當佢離開一段日子時,中大宣教士/牧者便以為中大葡萄園是屬於他們的,任何有關中大的事也不和佢商量,就私下決定,甚致奪去佢所栽培既葡萄樹和牧者,如同葡萄園的惡園戶一樣。

那一刻,我才知道,原來所謂既 “屬靈父母” ,平日表現得如此聖潔及滿有牧者心腸,竟然搶奪羔羊到,連白己既牧者都唔放過!原來在港大宣教士眼中,他們只是惡園戶。他們口口聲聲稱自己為”屬靈父母”,叫人敬重和絕對順從他們,但他們卻如此對待自己的屬靈母親,真是講一套、做一套。不過,回想起來,港大宣教士咁樣解釋聖經,又真係好有問題。 




2011年10月16日星期日

UBF牧者的謊言 (Deceit) - littlesheep


Source: http://www.armbell.com/forum/viewtopic.php?t=4894&postdays=0&postorder=asc&start=30&mforum=liberalhk



1. 



eloihk 寫到:
我同意UBF裏成熟的牧者若客觀環境許可的話(如時間和財政)應該修讀一些由福音派教會辦有用的神學課程或多聽一點有恩賜的牧師講道,在解經方面有橫向和縱向進深。


Eloihk
此言有誤導成份,令人誤以為UBF牧者很開明,容許信徒報讀神學或聽其他牧師的講道。但事實上,在UBF嚴密的操控下,根本無一牧者會如Eloihk所說,若有時間和財政的話,便可自由地修讀神學或聽其他牧師講道,相反,宣教士和牧者在查經時,經常藐視神學,甚至有牧者引用哥林多前書說:「知識是叫人自高自大、惟有愛心能造就人」來反對信徒讀神學,因此,香港 UBF 連一個讀過神學的人都無。

2.



CU Brother 寫到:
若彼此也是奉主耶穌基督的名服事,行走信心的道路,大家就是主內的肢體、當彼此相愛、鼓勵、互勉、代禱。



但事實上,UBF的排他性特強,在查經中,不時會灌輸大教會信仰水平低,而UBF的信仰水準比他們高,因此他們從不視離開的人為行走信心道路的主內肢體,反而不斷向他們加以定罪,視他們為信心軟弱,或是受撒但試探而跌倒,或是不順從、攻擊教會的人,甚至是不得救的、要下落獄,此類見證比比皆是,因此離開的人往往要獨自承受極大的精神壓力,並非如這裏所說的充滿愛:離開UBF的人仍是主內的肢體、彼此相愛、鼓勵、互勉、代禱等等,絕對沒有這回事,例如:對於所有離開UBF的人,UBF的牧者一律是與他們斷絕來往。

3.



eloihk 寫到:
個別弟兄姊妹的不愉快經歷,我不能評論,正如我所說,UBF也有它的缺點,個別牧者也可能曾作出不恰當言論和思想。



這是UBF牧者經常說的謊言(Deceit),每當有一個羔羊受UBF牧者操控、欺騙或精神虐待,而內心受傷及提出自己的不滿時,必有另一位牧者出來說:「這是個別牧者的問題,是個別牧者發出不恰當的言論和處事手法」,或說:「你的牧者真是過份,不如轉來跟我查經吧!」,每每把問題歸咎於個別牧者身上,但事實上,操控、欺騙或精神虐待是普遍UBF牧者運用的手段,而非個別牧者的問題。


4.



eloihk 寫到:
我只想說幾件事實:……當年羅錫為牧師的文章發出以後,曾有UBF的人找他談,羅牧師主要的論據也是基於NAE的事件,UBF指出了已經重新加入,羅牧師當時承諾以後不會再作這個言論。可是覆水始終是難收罷了 ……

但事實上,羅牧師一直堅持把 UBF 定性為異端及操控性教派,並非基於 NAE 的接納與否,而是基於 UBF本身的內部操控性及異端性特徵,更沒有如 Eloihk 牧者所說般收回有關言論。


5. UBF
的牧者經常引用「UBF 已被 NAE 接納為成員」,告訴信徒他們是福音派,又主張 Dr. E. Coleman 等著名牧師都推薦 UBF,藉此騙取他們的信任,但事實上,根據新興教派研究中心指出,NAE 同時也接納了幾個異端為會員,而 NAE 和 Dr. E. Coleman 並非研究新興宗教的專家,因此他們未必能看出 UBF 內在的異端性和操控性,但根據羅錫為牧者所說,世界各地(特別美國和韓國)的所有研究新興教派的中心,均一致把 UBF 定性為異端和操控性教派。根據新興教派關注小組楊子聰所說,UBF 作的只是公關技巧,令人表面相信它是福音派,但 UBF 內在的特質形態是顯而易見、無可反駁的操控性教派。


CU Brother 和 Eloihk 的反駁


Source:  http://www.armbell.com/forum/viewtopic.php?t=4894&postdays=0&postorder=asc&start=15&mforum=liberalhk



CU Brother 的反駁

我是已從中大畢業的一位UBF弟兄,在UBF已有一段時間。多日來的留言教我感概萬分,原因不是受攻擊,乃是看到主內的弟兄姊妹缺乏當有彼此相愛的心,作沒有益處的言語爭辯(提後2:14);而我回應的原因也不是為辯護,因判別是非的在父 神,而是簡單抒發我的感受。 

我自問是個好奇得喜愛每事問的人,認識主的前後也沒有多大變化。 我感謝 神讓我認識祂的 神性、全能。通過聖經我看到自己的罪,但更看到神藉祂的愛子對世人所施予的洪恩和大愛,叫我不能再自高自大,這是無可置否聖靈的工作。 主耶穌也屢次在福音書中顯明祂的教導,包括因信稱義的應許,與及主盼望信徒見証主愛、傳揚福音以至拓展神國的盼望,這不論是牧者、羔羊,或有否讀過神學課程,凡謙卑受聖靈引導讀經的信徒相信也能明白。 

近日不定期收到由同一信箱發出之bcc電郵,個人估計是已離開/反ubf的弟兄/姊妹用心做的,因其內容富有批評及挑撥的思想 (當中完全感受不到耶穌),這從他/她所列出的網站、引用的回應可見一二,亦因如此而臨到包括此處在內的兩個論壇。此處的評論,部份已由ubf牧者eloihk作出了個人認為合宜的回應,的確 "個別弟兄姊妹的不愉快經歷,我不能評論,正如我所說,UBF也有它的缺點,個別牧者也可能曾作出不恰當言論和思想"。 也有看來是別處主內的弟兄姊妹所作的留言,對一些有關神學的建議,以聖經的角度回應了;以我膚淺的認知 (無冒犯之意,請見諒),於其他教會帶領團契、愛主而事主的同工,也並非一定唸過神學。(而他們從來沒有自稱是ubf牧者/弟兄姊妹,不明白為何有弟兄姊妹胡亂對號入座,偏要指出是ubf牧者的回應,客觀地看用意其攻擊意味其實頗明顯) 惟是有弟兄姊妹契而不捨地作出針對性評論,當中兩位稱為ubf牧者的,言詞間卻用了第三者的角度去批評教會的牧養,難道這位 "牧者"沒有試過為主服侍福音事工,還是在自我批評自己一直的牧養? 而且一些稱為ubf的牧者,其所用的帳號名字,所描述的事情,我真的不能認出是誰,但我感到是出自同一組想作出離諫、破壞主內合一的人。老實說我不怕顯出我是誰,若真是ubf的弟兄姊妹,實在毋用如此忍晦呢。 

我知自己也像在作沒有益處的爭辯,然而我可以肯定的是,很多牧者都是用愛及聖經的說話去牧養羔羊的,我也曾多番質疑我牧者的言論,以其為自我的意思,委實當中會有牧者的個人意見,但「這聖經能使你因信基督耶穌而有得救的智慧。」通過受牧養、閱讀聖經、禱告等個人靈修,我曉得我的牧者是按真理教導,教導也符合神對世人(包括我)的盼望,是按真這是自因信稱義的恩典而來,神給予人的使命。 誠然地上有不同的教會,每間教會的牧養方向和對象也有不同,若彼此也是奉主耶穌基督的名服事,行走信心的道路,大家就是主內的肢體、當彼此相愛、鼓勵、互勉、代禱,而非花時間在哲學性的批判上。有不認同是出於 神的帶領而往別的教會,在那裏繼續事奉和走窄路的,神也必按各人的信心而使用他。 

「聖經都是神所默示的,於教訓、督責、使人歸正、教導人學義,都是有益的。叫屬神的人得以完全,預備行各樣善事」(提後3:16-17),在此懇請各位親愛的弟兄姊妹,靠着聖經在主耶穌基督的愛心上成長,以基督的心為心,效法主的樣式彼此洗腳,服侍別人,逃避否認聖靈工作的說話。 
同時懇請那位不斷在深夜時分發出電郵攻擊教會的弟兄姊妹,以主耶穌的教導省察自己充滿憤恨的內心,回轉過來,盡心、性、力愛主我們的神,共同獻上自己為活祭。



Eloihk 的反駁

關於Jery早前提到的所謂UBF牧者對神學的看法,主要是來自於BabyKingdom裏一位858D的回應。但這位858D從沒有提及他是來自UBF,而從他過往在BabyKingdom所發表過的文章看來應該不是UBF的牧者。因此不應把這些意見看成UBF的普遍立場。 

此外,我想談談有關對神學問題的態度。因為我相信可能真的有UBF的弟兄姊妹會有這類問題。但我也必須強調不是代表UBF來發表官方立場。我只希望就著我對UBF的認識與過往的思考來談談個人意見。 

「神學無用論」的意見並非新鮮,也不是單純是UBF的問題,有某些信徒可能對神學存有一種抗拒感覺。可能是有些神學往往流於過於哲學性和理論化,若不是為護教目的的話,這些神學對信徒的靈性方面的培養難說有甚麼貢獻,甚至只是淪為一些人藉此建立自己的地位和名聲的工具。而且神學也有不同派別,不是每個派別都合適學習,如果是那些不信原文聖經無誤,不信聖經中的神蹟,就只會敗壞信徒的信心。(本人無意挑起不同派別的爭論) 

神學最基本就是指對神的認識,所以每個真正信徒必然有某程度的神學基礎(縱然不一定完全合乎聖經),否則不可能成為真正的信徒,只是大家不一定用「神學」這個名詞吧。UBF也不可能沒有神學,UBF的神學基本上是建基於聖經字面解釋,屬於較初淺的基督教基本教義,與基督教基要信仰一致。至於在應用方面則各牧者按自己的領受及背景有所不同而在教導上有不同的強調,不一而足。 

我同意UBF裏成熟的牧者若客觀環境許可的話(如時間和財政)應該修讀一些由福音派教會辦有用的神學課程或多聽一點有恩賜的牧師講道,在解經方面有橫向和縱向進深。但我必須提出一個提醒,正如保羅在哥林多前書所說:「知識是叫人自高自大、惟有愛心能造就人。」信徒普遍走向兩個極端:只追求知識,結果是自高自大,使教會受虧損。只追求愛心,結果可能因知識上沒有裝備得好而未能有所作為甚至好心做壞事。 

我贊同CU Brother的看法。我也相信在UBF裏牧者們都一直奉行「不可為言語爭辯.這是沒有益處的、只能敗壞聽見的人。」的教導。然而近來的情況恐怕有較幼嫩的弟兄姊妹受到影響,若有信心被敗壞的,受虧損的不是UBF,而是神的家。我想這些dirty job還得有人出來做。 

我既非來自港大或中大,UBF裏的必然知道我是誰。我歡迎有疑惑的弟兄與我談論,我從不會勸人必須留在UBF,但若有要離開的,應該要有所領受的方向,若不是離開主,也不必帶著怨恨,因為我們還要在天國裏相見。